Basically.. from day 1: Ocarina was completely based on Gecko OS. If you had looked for Wii homebrew being able to start commercial games back then you would have found out that such homebrew didn't exist back then. Gecko Region Free or Gecko OS were the only applications capabale of doing so. Nuke handed me the sources of Gecko OS and then just the apploader was taken. All options removed and the behaviour was defaulted.
Thus:
-Ocarina boots games the same way like Gecko OS in default mode - that means:
--no VIDTV patch
--VI hook
--PAL50 for European games
--NTSC for US/Japanese games
Ocarina then adds the typical code handler by kenobi and Y.S. . This code handler is completely identical to that of Gecko OS 1.06c! Even if you boot a game with Ocarina and then fire up WiiRd - it will communicate via USB Gecko just fine. Simply because the complete WiiRd handler is inside - nothing was scrapped.
And the only difference of Ocarina: it reads the SD card and checks for codes. That's the only feature it has GeckoOS 1.06d- did not have. Other than that.. internally it's Gecko OS without interface and only default options. So those reports on "Ocarina can boot a game Gecko OS cannot boot" - that simply can't be if the applications are properly installed.. Ocarina and Gecko OS share the same apploader - Gecko OS just allows options. However: if you leave anything default, then Ocarina and Gecko OS boot games using the absolutely same way!
Nuke basically is focused on USB Gecko development.. and of course: Ocarina which technically aims at users without USB Gecko is going against that idea. Therefore Ocarina was out-sourced.. however, in the end, Ocarina made the USB Gecko also very popular and thus it didn't go against.. it helped it actually.
And therefore: Ocarina was included in Gecko OS. And additionally the only true Ocarina bug - locked SD cards - was also fixed. So even from day 1 Gecko OS 1.06f was superior to Ocarina even in Ocarina's main functionality.
And now ask me? Why should Ocarina be continued.. because the WiiRD code handler is still in works.. there are bugs:
-bugs (quite a few bugs btw. were fixed in Gecko OS 1.07)
-feature ideas (region-independent code types)
And that's simply something Ocarina couldn't keep track of. That would mean: whenever a new Gecko OS is released.. Ocarina would have to be updated too just to reflect the new changes in Gecko OS. And most of the time it would just mean: "Replace the code handler". The main Ocarina: is like 50 lines of C code. That's all.. Ocarina is just a little C code!
And this code has been completely adopted by Gecko OS. It is a few lines more now: for proper SD card unlock. However, other than that: Ocarina is in Gecko OS.
And that's why Gecko OS should take the place of Ocarina. It's the superior application.. and to all Ocarina users. Some things you might be interested in and why Gecko OS is really better:
- SD card is usable in games
- Ever played imports? Ocarina always uses the native color space of the games, however 90% of all working imports also happily run in YOUR preferred color space (for example Smash Bros Brawl US runs fine in PAL60 if deflicker is disabled)
- PAL users: don't you also prefer PAL60 over PAL50? I at least do.. and Ocarina always force boots PAL games in PAL50. Gecko OS allows you to use PAL60 - which works for 100% of all games.
- new code handler - fixes at several details (unfortunately this means: some old codes do not work, I know that myself.. that's basically because these codes relied on bugs.. however the bugs limited the functionality and didn't allow several things to work in the intended manner.. therefore.. parts were changed, breaking some old codes but allowing many new codes which would crash the old code handler)
- experienced games just not working with the standard VI hook? Well, Gecko OS allows two more: Wii Remote and GC Pad.. they sometimes fix non-working games
- rebooter mode: always wanted to play multi-dol games (Red Steel or masterpieces in Brawl) with cheats - Ocarina can't, Gecko OS with Rebooter can
And I hear "Oh but Gecko OS is so complicated, in Ocarina I just pressed A". Try that in Gecko OS.. do not press anything.. just press A. Oh! The game will start the same way as in Ocarina.. cheat codes on.. automatic color space.. VI hook. No change since the old one!
I hope I finally made the point clear: Ocarina still exists.. at least half of it.. Ocarina is basically: an application and 50 lines of C code. The application stopped existing.. the C code.. still exists! And if you have problems with Gecko OS which are cheating related.. we're here to help!
And it seems people do not know Gecko OS doesn't require the USB Gecko for cheating.. and as people can't read:
(http://l0nk.org/geckoos.png)
I still encourage anyone to get a USB Gecko - but if you just want to cheat you do not need it!
I agree with everything there. Also, I mean, alot of people may only buy USBGecko just for the codes...it doesn't seem fair for Nuke to have Ocarina...of course, like you mentioned, it greatly increased the popularity, in fact, the reason I got a Gecko was from using Ocarina.
What are your opinions on Ocarina in GeckoOS/Ocarina apps?
But Ocarina was one of the greatest things ever. It helps people like me especially who can't go out and buy all these game parts such as Gecko OS. Finding ocarina was the best thing since I got an action replay and really enhanced the wii's experience. Ocarina couldn't have caused more bad than good and though updating may take a lot how bout having other people help? Even though it's not as advanced as Gecko, as you say; It's still an awesome and useful program none the less. I really believe Ocarina should be continued and I'm pretty sure there are a lot of people that would love the continuing of it as well.
Quote from: Onyx on October 14, 2008, 08:27:18 AM
But Ocarina was one of the greatest things ever. It helps people like me especially who can't go out and buy all these game parts such as Gecko OS.
Gecko OS is free! You do not need a USB Gecko to use it. For cheaters Gecko OS has the same price as Ocarina. What are you talking about?
Do people think you need a USB Gecko to cheat using Gecko OS? Let me just clarify one thing:
You do not require any extra hardware to use cheats using Gecko OS!
Cheating is 100% free of charge
All you need is the Ocarina code manager or Code Manage 0.1a.. create a GCT file.. store it on SD card.. and start the game you wish to play with Gecko OS. Same as Ocarina!
Maybe is not clear that Gecko OS is NOT USB Gecko...
Gecko OS is a software, wich ALSO work as an interface for the USB Gecko, wich is a piece of HARDWARE.
USB Gecko is for hacking, debugging, takin screenshot, do backups of GC memorycard, do backups of games and, because of the debugging feauters, it can ALSO do cheats.
Gecko OS is "merely" an application, a "boot loader" (it's not a boot loader, but...) which can boot import ORIGINAL games, use cheats founded on this site or created with USB Gecko.
I hope that this clarify everithing. (even if Link and Nuke have explained this A LOT OF TIMES...)
/me feels good.
[edit] holly crap, /me support ftw! :D
Okay, I'm incredibly confused here. I thought Ocarina WAS Gecko? I have no idea what any of this means. And if cheating is 100% free, then what is that hardware for? Someone give this to me in a nutshell.
Quote from: PsychicKid on October 14, 2008, 09:42:37 PM
Okay, I'm incredibly confused here. I thought Ocarina WAS Gecko? I have no idea what any of this means. And if cheating is 100% free, then what is that hardware for? Someone give this to me in a nutshell.
(http://l0nk.org/geckoos.png)
Gecko OS without hardware: imports + using cheats
Gecko OS with hardware: imports + using cheats + making cheats (hacking/debugging) + screengrabs from hardware
The hardware is essentially needed to make cheat codes.. so if noone has it.. you guys without it couldn't use cheats.. you can only use cheats because some hackers own a usb gecko.. making cheats without USB Gecko is and will forever be impossible!
Oh, okay then. Makes sense now. I've got no use for the hardware then, since all I use it for is using codes and playing imports. Saved me some money there. :D
Lol, yeah, I am quite aware of the endless possibilities with a USB Gecko. I mainly just mentioned the cheating and hacking functionality as that's basically what we're discussing most in these forums.. but in general you're of course 100% correct!
So Ocarina and Gecko OS are the same, but Gecko OS has even more, better features?
Why was everyone using Ocarina then? :confused:
First of all..
development cycle (SIMPLIFIED):
1. Gecko OS
a) boots games with options
b) allows hacking using USB Gecko
2. later than Ocarina was started as an experiment
a) boots games without any options - it internally uses same code as Gecko OS to start games
b) allows cheating with GCT files
Ocarina went extremely well.. so result:
3. New Gecko OS
a) Boots games with options
b) allows hacking using USB Gecko
c) allows cheatng with GCT files
so..it started with Gecko OS. Ocarina was launched as an external test project.. it went awesomely well.. and it went back into Gecko OS.
Quote from: Unknown0 on October 26, 2008, 03:16:18 PM
So Ocarina and Gecko OS are the same, but Gecko OS has even more, better features?
Why was everyone using Ocarina then? :confused:
Cause a lot of people think you have to buy the hardware, which you don't.
=S When I try to load Gecko OS 1.07b, it tells me it isn't a valid file
because many people didn't expect Gecko OS would work without USB Gecko. How often have I heard "I don't want gecko OS because I not want pay for extra hardware"
for the valid file thing: http://wiird.l0nk.org/forum/index.php?topic=1598.0
Quote from: Link on October 26, 2008, 05:51:18 PM
First of all..
development cycle (SIMPLIFIED):
1. Gecko OS
a) boots games with options
b) allows hacking using USB Gecko
2. later than Ocarina was started as an experiment
a) boots games without any options - it internally uses same code as Gecko OS to start games
b) allows cheating with GCT files
Ocarina went extremely well.. so result:
3. New Gecko OS
a) Boots games with options
b) allows hacking using USB Gecko
c) allows cheatng with GCT files
so..it started with Gecko OS. Ocarina was launched as an external test project.. it went awesomely well.. and it went back into Gecko OS.
Oh, that makes sense. The newest update in Gecko OS allowed just for cheats. Thanks.
Quote from: Ready_Start_L_Arc on October 26, 2008, 07:19:55 PM
=S When I try to load Gecko OS 1.07b, it tells me it isn't a valid file
Just do this.
Quote from: Link on October 26, 2008, 07:09:31 AM
--> Go to usbgecko.com, download Gecko OS.. and copy the HBC folder in your apps directory as usual. Then from the DOL folder take main.dol and also put it into apps\GeckoOS___\ - delete boot.elf there and rename main.dol to boot.dol .
I think Ocarina should still maintain it's 'individuality' somewhat
What if the Code Manager was packed in with Gecko OS releases and an 'Ocarina' menu option or something was added to the Gecko OS menu, just as a noob-friendly option to people using it exclusively for cheats.
'Launch Game' doesn't really imply that it's going to use any codes on the SD card
In the very least, the code manager should be tossed on the USBGecko.com downloads page
Quote from: Warchamp7 on October 30, 2008, 07:51:34 PM
I think Ocarina should still maintain it's 'individuality' somewhat
What if the Code Manager was packed in with Gecko OS releases and an 'Ocarina' menu option or something was added to the Gecko OS menu, just as a noob-friendly option to people using it exclusively for cheats.
'Launch Game' doesn't really imply that it's going to use any codes on the SD card
In the very least, the code manager should be tossed on the USBGecko.com downloads page
I quite agree!! :D :D :D :cool: :cool: :cool:
Quote from: Warchamp7 on October 30, 2008, 07:51:34 PM
I think Ocarina should still maintain it's 'individuality' somewhat
What if the Code Manager was packed in with Gecko OS releases and an 'Ocarina' menu option or something was added to the Gecko OS menu, just as a noob-friendly option to people using it exclusively for cheats.
'Launch Game' doesn't really imply that it's going to use any codes on the SD card
In the very least, the code manager should be tossed on the USBGecko.com downloads page
1. Ocarina doesn't imply it's for cheating either. You know it is for cheating. Therefore if you know: Pressing 'Launch game' without any options.. and Gecko OS behaves completely like Ocarina.. VI hook, NTSC output for NTSC games and PAL output for PAL games.. no VIDTV. This is exactly how Ocarina behaved. Yes: Ocarina is a rip-off of Gecko OS' code.
2. For the code manager coming with Gecko OS or so.. first of all.. I have no control over that. What I can however offer is adding a Gecko OS version to the code manager. Would mean maintaining work for me but yes that would work! However: the USB Gecko page is for USB Gecko stuff.. and Ocarina or the Code Manager are anything but USB Gecko related.. therefore: I agree to put Gecko OS and the code manager into one package publish via http://wiird.l0nk.org - if Nuke agrees with it.. after all: Gecko OS is his work.. the code manager was mine. But really.. the code manager is anything but USB Gecko related.
Quote from: Link on October 30, 2008, 08:55:32 PM
Quote from: Warchamp7 on October 30, 2008, 07:51:34 PM
I think Ocarina should still maintain it's 'individuality' somewhat
What if the Code Manager was packed in with Gecko OS releases and an 'Ocarina' menu option or something was added to the Gecko OS menu, just as a noob-friendly option to people using it exclusively for cheats.
'Launch Game' doesn't really imply that it's going to use any codes on the SD card
In the very least, the code manager should be tossed on the USBGecko.com downloads page
1. Ocarina doesn't imply it's for cheating either. You know it is for cheating. Therefore if you know: Pressing 'Launch game' without any options.. and Gecko OS behaves completely like Ocarina.. VI hook, NTSC output for NTSC games and PAL output for PAL games.. no VIDTV. This is exactly how Ocarina behaved. Yes: Ocarina is a rip-off of Gecko OS' code.
Exactly, Ocarina was known for being used for cheats and cheats only. Gecko OS is not so obvious in that fact. Having just something like "Load Cheats" or something would just be noob-friendly. I'm also quite aware Ocarina was a rip off of Gecko OS :P
Quote from: Link2. For the code manager coming with Gecko OS or so.. first of all.. I have no control over that. What I can however offer is adding a Gecko OS version to the code manager. Would mean maintaining work for me but yes that would work! However: the USB Gecko page is for USB Gecko stuff.. and Ocarina or the Code Manager are anything but USB Gecko related.. therefore: I agree to put Gecko OS and the code manager into one package publish via http://wiird.l0nk.org - if Nuke agrees with it.. after all: Gecko OS is his work.. the code manager was mine. But really.. the code manager is anything but USB Gecko related.
As far as I know, the outdated Ocarina code manager I have works on the 1.07 Gecko OS, fluke?.
Having the Ocarina Code manager packed with Gecko OS on the WiiRD page sounds like a great idea.
Why don't they just build the code manager into Gecko OS? Having to constantly go from my computer to my Wii when testing out codes is a pain in the ass
Quote from: wiiztec on October 30, 2008, 10:10:33 PM
Why don't they just build the code manager into Gecko OS? Having to constantly go from my computer to my Wii when testing out codes is a pain in the ass
This has been brought up multiple times.
I think it has to do with the SD card being locked out while in an app
Quote from: Warchamp7 on October 30, 2008, 10:24:30 PM
Quote from: wiiztec on October 30, 2008, 10:10:33 PM
Why don't they just build the code manager into Gecko OS? Having to constantly go from my computer to my Wii when testing out codes is a pain in the ass
This has been brought up multiple times.
I think it has to do with the SD card being locked out while in an app
Does this mean that making the code manager in Gecko OS is impossible? Cause I also want the code manager in Gecko OS.
Quote from: Clay on October 30, 2008, 10:33:01 PM
Quote from: Warchamp7 on October 30, 2008, 10:24:30 PM
Quote from: wiiztec on October 30, 2008, 10:10:33 PM
Why don't they just build the code manager into Gecko OS? Having to constantly go from my computer to my Wii when testing out codes is a pain in the ass
This has been brought up multiple times.
I think it has to do with the SD card being locked out while in an app
Does this mean that making the code manager in Gecko OS is impossible? Cause I also want the code manager in Gecko OS.
For the time being
Hacking the Masterpieces in Brawl and loading textures into a game was once thought not to be possible but it's been done.
Only time will tell
It is not impossible..
but guys: help is welcome.. Gecko OS is open source.. if you want to try and help.. welcome!
The main reason is: we're also focused on many more things.. continuing USB Gecko support.. kenobi and me are main developers of WiiRd and it's a never-ending bug fix development. There simply is noone who has a complete development focus on Ocarina. A code list on Wii side is possible - we just simply did not have the time to implement one! We are not paid.. we have to get cash other ways.. please do not compare us to Datel or DS flash card people - those get paid for making cheat devices.. if we were paid.. it would be probably done. But if anyone of you has knowledge of programming.. feel free to look at the C code of Gecko OS - I am pretty sure everybody would integrate your ideas!
Quote from: Warchamp7 on October 30, 2008, 10:24:30 PM
I think it has to do with the SD card being locked out while in an app
Doesn't Wii Doom write save files to the SD card?
Quote from: wiiztec on October 31, 2008, 12:50:17 AM
Quote from: Warchamp7 on October 30, 2008, 10:24:30 PM
I think it has to do with the SD card being locked out while in an app
Doesn't Wii Doom write save files to the SD card?
Note -
think-, I wasn't totally sure. Anyway, Link explained the reasons why
Ok then would it be easier to make the code manager into it's own HBC app?
Quote from: wiiztec on October 31, 2008, 01:08:04 AM
Ok then would it be easier to make the code manager into it's own HBC app?
There is one
Really? do you have the link?
Quote from: wiiztec on October 31, 2008, 01:32:43 AM
Really? do you have the link?
http://wiird.l0nk.org/forum/index.php?topic=597.0 (http://wiird.l0nk.org/forum/index.php?topic=597.0)
here ya go!!
There is even a try of doing so.. the hardest part about it is actually writing an implementation on these XX or YY placeholders.. I have also already drafted out a code system for Wii side which does not have these things.. it's therefore easier to write and comparable to the Action Replay (Notes, Master Codes, Disabled codes, enabled codes) for Gamecube. However it's just drafted and lacks an implementation as of now.
Quote from: Link on October 31, 2008, 07:38:51 AM
There is even a try of doing so.. the hardest part about it is actually writing an implementation on these XX or YY placeholders.. I have also already drafted out a code system for Wii side which does not have these things.. it's therefore easier to write and comparable to the Action Replay (Notes, Master Codes, Disabled codes, enabled codes) for Gamecube. However it's just drafted and lacks an implementation as of now.
Link, if you could implement a sub folder system on it, I could make a modified codelist with all possible options for codes with XX values, and then all of those would be under a single sub folder
The only problem is file length
I had a comparable system like that.. it would split up codes automatically on PC side where you can prepare special Wii code lists.. these lists indeed kinda have a specification.. sub folder system like the DS has however would be cool!
so wait... where do I download WiirRD?
Link please.
Well theres always the long way around to making ocarina work. By using twilight hack, just put the ocarinas elf file in the root of your sd card and then run twilight hack too boot it, worked for me.
Quote from: pichu04 on November 25, 2008, 06:52:11 AM
Well theres always the long way around to making ocarina work. By using twilight hack, just put the ocarinas elf file in the root of your sd card and then run twilight hack too boot it, worked for me.
I simply wonder why people want to do that..
take Gecko OS.. make your code list.. ignore the menu and press A.. in that moment Gecko OS 100% behaves like Ocarina..
100%
In fact Ocarina was just a copy paste of the usual "Launch game" command of Gecko OS. It is the same!
Options are terrifying!
People are dumb
Link, just keep the ocarina link live and point it to the gecko os file so users think they are downloading ocarina
Quote from: Panda On Smack on November 25, 2008, 09:09:55 AM
People are dumb
Link, just keep the ocarina link live and point it to the gecko os file so users think they are downloading ocarina
Lol, awesome! I'll do!
lol
ocarina doesn't shut down the SD device correctly, as it was unknown how to do it when it was coded.
if you play brawl you have zero sd access, but i think this has been pointed out many times before.
Quote from: James0x57 on November 25, 2008, 08:59:29 AM
Options are terrifying!
Protip: select Gecko OS in your HBC.. start it: but before the screen appears.
close your eyes - then press A and wait 20 seconds
:)
Quote from: pichu04 on November 25, 2008, 06:52:11 AM
Well theres always the long way around to making ocarina work. By using twilight hack, just put the ocarinas elf file in the root of your sd card and then run twilight hack too boot it, worked for me.
There's actually an easier way than that (besides the obvious of using Gecko OS).
Elf to Dol Tool - (these are not my links - credit goes to phextin at wiiso.com)
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=ZO3U5RAM (http://www.megaupload.com/?d=ZO3U5RAM)
or
http://rapidshare.com/files/158245611/elf2dol.zip.html (http://rapidshare.com/files/158245611/elf2dol.zip.html)
Enjoy! :D
Quote from: Link on November 25, 2008, 08:40:24 AM
Quote from: pichu04 on November 25, 2008, 06:52:11 AM
Well theres always the long way around to making ocarina work. By using twilight hack, just put the ocarinas elf file in the root of your sd card and then run twilight hack too boot it, worked for me.
I simply wonder why people want to do that..
take Gecko OS.. make your code list.. ignore the menu and press A.. in that moment Gecko OS 100% behaves like Ocarina..
100%
In fact Ocarina was just a copy paste of the usual "Launch game" command of Gecko OS. It is the same!
Well you can do what you want im just using it for twilight princess cause i have v2 and from the looks of it the must be one code still doesnt work so.
Quote from: pichu04 on November 25, 2008, 04:40:39 PM
Quote from: Link on November 25, 2008, 08:40:24 AM
Quote from: pichu04 on November 25, 2008, 06:52:11 AM
Well theres always the long way around to making ocarina work. By using twilight hack, just put the ocarinas elf file in the root of your sd card and then run twilight hack too boot it, worked for me.
I simply wonder why people want to do that..
take Gecko OS.. make your code list.. ignore the menu and press A.. in that moment Gecko OS 100% behaves like Ocarina..
100%
In fact Ocarina was just a copy paste of the usual "Launch game" command of Gecko OS. It is the same!
Well you can do what you want im just using it for twilight princess cause i have v2 and from the looks of it the must be one code still doesnt work so.
I'm surprised no one else caught this. You're using the Twilight Hack to start up Ocarina for cheat codes for Twilight Princess. Last I knew, you couldn't use the Twilight Hack to save your Twilight Princess game. so, how exactly are you doing this? Second, the codes do work for the game on both Ocarina and Gecko OS (I've tested them out for myself on both). You must be doing something wrong.
Actually, on the 'RVL-RZDE-0A-2' version of Twilight Princess, the codes do only work on Ocarina, and not any of the GeckoOS versions with Ocarina support. The 'Must Be On for Zelda TP v2 USA [James0x57]' code becomes corrupted. However, you can convert Ocarina into a DOL file by using the following tool...
Super Simple Elf2Dol converter for Hombrew Channel beta9 (http://tehskeen.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9369)
The above tool will make it usable on the Beta 9 version of the Homebrew Channel.
Also, you should be able to start new game files on the empty slots, and not break the Twilight Hack. You just can't move the Twilight Hack slot.
Quote from: 111 on November 26, 2008, 03:45:10 AM
Actually, on the 'RVL-RZDE-0A-2' version of Twilight Princess, the codes do only work on Ocarina, and not any of the GeckoOS versions with Ocarina support. The 'Must Be On for Zelda TP v2 USA [James0x57]' code becomes corrupted. However, you can convert Ocarina into a DOL file by using the following tool...
.
Super Simple Elf2Dol converter for Hombrew Channel beta9 (http://tehskeen.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9369)
The above tool will make it usable on the Beta 9 version of the Homebrew Channel.
Also, you should be able to start new game files on the empty slots, and not break the Twilight Hack. You just can't move the Twilight Hack slot.
Precisely and the sound doesnt work either ive tried finding a solution but no dice
I'll fix that code eventually. ;(